Paylor'S Thirsk & York 1869 and beyond?

By genealogy.com user May 19, 2001 at 06:34:12

Dear All fellow Paylor
(and a big hug to Irma R and Lisa P)

I have been researching the Paylors for the last few years and after passing on information all round the globe wonder if anyone can help me any further.

My Great Grandfather was Thomas Paylor born in Thirsk, North Yorkshire in 1869. his Grandfather was Vincent Paylor born in Topcliffe Thirsk in 1794. I know that Vincents father was also Vincent (1764) and Vincent's Grandfather was George Paylor born December 1675 in Nun Monkton Near York,

I have now come to a grinding halt. There is a suspicion that Nathaniel Paylor may have been George Paylors Father but as to his birthplace and year I have no confirmation. Can anyone help me get back further than this? Also has anyone any reference to their Occupations in the Paylor Family?

I would be extreamly greatful for any jhelp in this matter and look forward to meeting new family wherever you may be.

Incidently...,I live only 8 miles from Thirsk and until I started doing my Family Tree.....no-one in the family was aware that 'anyone' lived anywhere near Thirsk. It's purely co-incidence that I live here, I moved simply because of my late husbands job!
Spookie Stuff - huh folks?

All good thoughts,
Sue Simpson
(but a Paylor and proud of it!)
Northallerton,
North Yorkshire
England

Hello Sue,
My gg grandfather was Robert Paylor (born 16 March 1840), youngest son of Vincent of Topcliffe, who was born after Vincent's death.Robert married Ellen Carter on 12 May 1860 at St. Stephen's Parish Church, Willington and they had four children - Robert, Thomas, John and Mary (my great-grandmother).I have done much research at both Durham (my local record office) and Northallerton and may be able to add to your notes.
Kindest regards,
Janet (Harding)

Hi Sue, I am looking for Paylors from Thirsk, It wouldbe my great great grandfather Vincent Paylor and his wife's first name was Sarah.She died May 14, 1891 in Thirsk, York, England.Their one son William Paylor Born Oct 15, 1865, moved to Glenelg Township, (just outside of Durham, Ontario.)He married Elizabeth Falkingham.I was wondering if this is part of your line that you are tracing.Can you help?I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks Susan Paylor

Hello Susan,
I think I may have your William on my database.If it is him, his parents, Vincent and Sarah, had nine children (4 girls, 5 boys), William being the third son, born c.1865.This is one line I have not done a lot of research on - Vincent was my g.g.grandfather's older brother.Does this match with your information?
Kind regards,
Janet (Harding)

Hi Janet
It could well be the line I am looking for.My Dad is not sure how many brothers and sisters his great Grandfather had.

Susan,
Won't bore you details but am now relaxed and refreshed !
Thirsk, Northallerton and York is/was the epicentre of the Northern clan of the Paylors.
George, whom you refer to, was born at/in Nun Monkton in 1675 and was 'named' (nowadays called 'christened') on 3rd August, 1675. He died in 1698, aged 23. Details on IGI Records. George had a sister, Mary Ann, born a year earlier in 1674, also at Nun Monkton. She was 'named' on 2nd April, 1674. Details on IGI Records
George and Mary were the two children of Nathaniel.

Nathaniel was born in 1655 at Nun Monkton, and named on Sept 9th of that year (IGI & Parish Records). Nathaniel was one of four children of GEORGE. Nathaniels' brothers and sister were, Marie (died 25th July 1646), Samuel (died 8th Feb, 1649) and Robert (died 8th Dec, 1651 aged 41 weeks, 2 days).

Marie, Samuel and Robert are buried at The Tower of London. Visit the Chapel of St. Peter ad Vincula in the south eatern corner where there are busts of George Payler and his wife Maria Carey. Well worth a day out!

Now we hit a problem !!!

Nathaniel's father was GEORGE - proven....

Now bear with the problem which I am still working on....

BACGROUND TO THE PROBLEM :
The earliest reference to our family which I can trace with certainty is PIETER PAILLOR, born in York around 1520. He had three sons and one daughter. Family as follows :

William Payler - born in York 1548
Pieter Payler - born in York, 1550
John Payler - born in York, 1553
Jane Payler - born in York, 1560

PROBLEM :

Pieter had four children, one of whom was named GEORGE
John had five children, one of whom was
named GEORGE

At this moment I am unable to say, with certainty, which GEORGE is the father of Nathaniel.

Summary :
Pieter Paillor, born around 1520
(three sons & one daughter)
One of Pieter's sons - either Pieter or John - had son GEORGE (your line)
George (your line) had four children, including Nathaniel.
Nathaniel had one daughter and one son (George)

Hope some of this is of use. I have spent a few years researching but don't claim to be an expert!!!

Hi there Kevan,

And thank you for answering my post. I found the information very useful but have a question that may be just my understanding of the data....can you help me further?

PIETER PAILLOR was born in 1520
and had a son (either JOHN or PIETER)or sons b. around 1550 (30 year gap....no problem)

Then either PIETER or JOHN was the father of GEORGE

GEORGE then had a son NATHANIEL in 1655.

The querie/question/problem is....
there seems to be a tremendous gap between PIETER 1550 and his granson GEORGE in 16?? in order for GEORGE to father NATHANIEL in 1665.

Is there a generation missing between PIETER/JOHN & GEORGE (Father & Son)

I 'do' hope this all makes sense.
Thank you for the information shared so far.

And BTW-My mum has always been adament that we have relatives in Whitby. I have spent many a happy day there.

All good thoughts,
Sue Simpson (nee Paylor)
Northallerton
North Yorkshire
England

Hello again Susan,
As a pale-skinned Whitby Paylor, this hot and sunny weather is too much for me!!!
Re. your query. I have no evidence whatsoever of any missing generation. Peiter, born 1520(ish)had four children, two of whom had children named George ; ie:
(i) Pieter, born 1550, had a son named George who was born in York in 1590 when Pieter was 40 years old
(ii) John, born 1553, had a son named George who was bornin York in 1607 when John was 54 years old

George was the father of Robert, Marie, Samuel and NATHANIEL. Which George ? Pieter's son or John's son - I can't prove which one YET. But a quick reckoning shows the following :
Peiter's George, born 1590, would have been 65 years old when Nathaniel was born in 1655. Possible.. but...
John's George, born in 1607, would have been 48 years old when Nathaniel was born in 1655. A strong possibility that this is the line you are looking for but at this moment still not proven.
I have not found any reference whatsoever to any 'missing generation' and believe that the father of Nathaniel must be either Pieter's GEORGE (aged 65yrs) or John's GEORGE (aged 48 years).If you find anything to the contrary, let me know !
John's George is favourite in my book!
P.S. If your mum knows that there are Paylor relatives in Whitby then you and I are almsot certain to be related, however distant ! Let me know of any names, etc, and I'll try to put the jigsaw together ....

Best wishes,
Kevan

George Ruddick

Taken from http://stokesleyheritage.wikidot.com/ruddick-g

Private 201835 George Ruddick, 1st/4th Yorkshire Regiment (Territorial), formerly 5287 Yorkshire Regiment (Territorial)

Died of wounds 27th June, 1917

George Ruddick was born in Newby in 1892 the son of James Ruddick, a farm labourer, born Dalton Piercy, and Elizabeth Ann Walshaw who was born in Middlesbrough.

George was one of 12 children: Sarah Ann, John William, Frederick Robert, Albert, George himself, Margaret Hannah, James, Elizabeth Mary, Ernest, Christopher, Thomas, Emily, and Harold.

In 1911 George was living at Haregill Lodge, Masham, with his eldest brother John and family, together with his brother Frederick and sister Elizabeth Mary. John was a farmer and in the census of that year he recorded George and Frederick as ‘brothers working on the farm’, and Elizabeth as “farmer’s sister dairy work”. James Ruddick, Frederick’s father was still in Newby with wife Phyllis, his 5 youngest children and one grandchild, Annie aged 4 years.

According to the Book of RemembranceGeorge was a farm man prior to enlistment and went abroad in Spring 1915. We also know from official sources that George enlisted in Masham, but said that he lived in Nunthorpe. (Presumably he gave the address of his parents, as Newby was frequently classed as being in Nunthorpe)

Private Ruddick died on 27th June 1917, and the Book of Remembrance tells us that he died following a gas attack. The war diary of 1st/4th Yorkshire Regiment records that there was a gas attack on 16th June where

"Casualties were caused by enemy shell and rifle fire and at least as many more by poison gas. Four Officers and four other ranks were killed by gas, one Officer and 14 other ranks were wounded, one Officer and sixteen other ranks were gassed.”
(See http://homepage.ntlworld.com/bandl.danby/001/BnIndex.html for further details of 1st/4th Yorkshire Regiment)

As official sources say that Private Ruddick died of wounds it may well be that he was one of the 14 wounded or the 16 that were gassed on this occasion, and that he subsequently died 11 days later.

Private Ruddick was 25 years old when he fell, and was awarded the British War Medal and the Victory Medal. His body lies in plot B 10 at the intimate Rookery British War Cemetery, Heninel in the Pas de Calais.

George Ruddick was one of 5 brothers who served 2 of whom fell. He is commemorated on the Memorial Plaque in the church of St Peter and St Paul, Stokesley as well as on the Newby War Memorial and at St Paul’s church, Healey.

Frederick Robert Ruddick

Lance Corporal 200388 Frederick Robert Ruddick, 6th West Yorkshire Regiment

Frederick Robert Ruddick was born in Newby in 1888, the son of James Ruddick, a farm labourer born in Dalton Piercy, and Elizabeth Ann Phyllis Walshaw who was born in Middlesbrough. The couple married in Middlesbrough district in 1884, and raised a large family.Died as a Prisoner of War 8th May, 1918

Frederick was one of 12 children: Sarah Ann, John William, Frederick Robert, Albert, George, Margaret Hannah, James, Elizabeth Mary, Ernest, Christopher, Thomas, Emily, and Harold.

In 1911 Frederick was living with his brother John’s family, (together with his brother George¹ and sister Elizabeth Mary) at Haregill Lodge, Masham, Yorkshire. John was a farmer and Frederick and George were recorded as brothers working on the farm. Sister Elizabeth was described as “farmer’s sister dairy work”.

Frederick’s father was still in Newby with wife Phyllis, his 5 youngest children and one grandchild, Annie aged 4 years.

The army records for Frederick are quite detailed. He enlisted at York into the West Yorkshire Regimenton 23rd August 1914 aged 26 years and 2 months. His occupation at that time was recorded as brewer’s drayman and he was 5’ 8¾” tall.

Frederick was sent to France on the ss Invicta, arriving at Boulogne on 16th April 1915. Between May 1915 and August 1916 his military career was interrupted by various illnesses such as diarrhoea and debility which caused him to be hospitalised for short periods in the field hospital. According to his records he remained a private soldier until 1917, but was awarded Proficiency Class 2 on 13th August 1916. In February 1917 he was once more placed in hospital (in Etaples) as he had a carbuncle on his neck, and he was then sent home on the hospital ship Grantilly. He was placed in the West Yorks reserves until such time as he could return to active duty.

Frederick was sent back to France again on 16th June 1917 and on 8th July he was posted to the 1st/6th West Yorkshire Regiment. Then, despite his history of illnesses, he was appointed Lance Corporal (unpaid) on 31st December 1917.

In March/Aprill 1918 the Germans launched Operation Michael, their last desperate attempt to win the war. They made rapid advances, inflicting heavy casualties on the allied troops and taking hundreds of prisoners. Lance Corporal Ruddick was reported missing on 24th April 1918. In May, his death was notified to the British Army in a report containing an official German list. Lance Corporal Ruddick had died of pneumonia in a Prisoner of War hospital in German-controlled Antwerp on 8th May 1918.

Following the report of his death a list of living relatives was requested by the authorities. The names supplied were:
• Father, James Ruddick of Newby
• Mother, E.A. P. Ruddick of Newby
• Brothers, James 22, Christopher 16, Thomas 13, Harold 9 (all of Newby) and then Ernest 18 of Close Farm, Hilton, Albert 30 of Seamer, Yarm and John 35 of Haregill Lodge, Masham.
• Sisters: Maggie Ruddick 25, of 1 Allendale Road, Grang… Stockton, Mrs Mary Smith 22 of 18 Maynard Street, Carlin How, Mrs Sarah Greenwood 36 of 11 Pall Mall, Mytholmroyd, York, and Emily Ruddick 11 of Newby.
The form was signed by Frederick’s mother and witnessed by Robert Fisher, Clerk in Holy Orders.

Lance Corporal Ruddick was 30 years old when he died. He was awarded the British War Medal, the Victory Medal and the Bronze 1914 – 15 Star. His body lies in Plot IIa.8 of Schoonselhof Cemetery, Hoboken, Antwerp.

Frederick R Ruddick was one of five brothers who served in the Great War, 2 of whom died. He is commemorated on the Memorial Plaque in Stokesley church, the Newby War Memorial and also on the war memorial in the church at Masham, where he worked on his brother's farm before he enlisted.

Go to next soldier: Ruddick G. - NB. This soldier is the brother of Ruddick F.R. 

Johm William Paylor

After watching this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmN27ZWymCY&t=616s

I recognised the names of 3 of my ancestors.

John William was my Grandad (Joseph Rowland Paylor) Brother

The following is copied from here: http://stokesleyheritage.wikidot.com/paylor-j-w  

Lance Corporal 148607 John W Paylor, 55th Battalion Machine Gun Corps, (formerly Private 2477 Yorkshire Regiment)

Killed in action 6th September, 1918.

John William Paylor was born in Thirsk in 1896. He was the son of Thomas Paylor, a farm hind also from Thirsk , and Elizabeth Metcalfe, the daughter of Charles and Margaret Metcalfe who was born in Darlington. The marriage of Thomas Paylor and Elizabeth Metcalfe was registered in Thirsk in 1893.

By 1901, however, the family was in Picton within Stokesley rural district and they are recorded ten years later as living at Thorntree Farm, Carlton, near Busby. John was then 14 and 'at home'. He was one of a large family, 9 children in all, of whom 8 were then surviving. John had 4 brothers: Charles, born about 1886, Thomas Vincent (1901), Arthur Wilfred (1903) and Joseph Rowland (1908). There were also 3 sisters: Sarah Selina born 1894, Annie Elizabeth (1899) and Margaret Jane (1905).

John’s attestation (enlistment) papers do not seem to have survived but those of his brother Charles have, and from these we can see that the family was living in West End, Stokesley in 1914. According to the Book of Remembrance John initially enlisted with the 4th Yorks Territorial Regiment on 14th September 1914 and was sent to France in April 1915. Over the next two years he was twice gassed and was once “missing” – his friends believing that he had perished.

The official list of “The Soldiers who Died in the Great War 1914 – 1918” states that John enlisted in Northallerton where he joined the Yorkshire Regiment. He was later transferred to the 55th Battallion Machine Gun Company (MGC). The 55th MGC joined with other MGCs of the 18th Division to form the 18th Machine Gun Battalion on 16th February 1918. He remained with this unit through the campaigns of spring and summer 1918, first checking the German advances and then driving the invaders north and east across France and Flanders. John Paylor had come through the most perilous stage of the whole war, only to die in action two months before the war ended.

Private Paylor's medal card records a variety of regimental numbers allocated to him as he was transferred from one unit to another. The first entry has him listed as Pte 2477, A Cyclist Corps; next he becomes Pte 14376, A Cyclist Corps, and finally Pte 148607, MGC. An annotation to the card by an army clerk reads: “correct Regtl No. 186” which must have been the number allocated to him when he joined the territorials.

From the medal card we also learn that John died of wounds and, poignantly, that his medals were returned undisposed of. Given the size of John Paylor's family, this seems hard to explain.

Private Paylor was 22 years old when he fell. He was awarded the British Medal, the Victory Medal and the 1915 Star. His body lies in Plot VI A 25 of the Pernes British Cemetery